О перспективах технического прогресса и обо всем.

Тех. прогресс обещает стать неуправляемым.
http://www.vz.ru/society/2011/10/11/529515.html

 

Всем добрый день. Возник вопросик, чтобы новую ветку не создавать написал здесь.

Кто нибудь в курсе, что такое trap frame и чем он отличается от обычного стекового фрейма?

Со stackoverflow.com:

С trap'ом ясно, программные прерывания более хитрым словом назвали.
Не выходит найти информацию об этом типе фрейма, как будто это несуществующий миф
Если кто-то когда-то видел его схематичное изображение, прошу поделиться ссылкой.

 

Структура,хранящая контекст потока при переходе последнего в режим ядра. Вопрос конечно в тему.

 

Nafanya
Зачем вам ядерные данные ? вам и классики С++ вроде много ...печалька конечно ну а че делать ? конечно надо вступать и конпилировать ахахаха отличный флуд.


Трап фрейм описывает состояние задачи, а это - контекст, SEH pointers(Код еррора, ), IRET и указатели для восстановления потока.

http://www.nirsoft.net/kernel_struct/vista/KTRAP_FRAME.html

 

shchetinin

Для расширения кругозора, не более того.
Читаю теорию Таненебаума по ОСям, вот ненароком наткнулся на TRAP.

 

Nafanya
Вы несете полный бред

АДМИНЫ закройте бредо топик.

 

У любой компании есть свои апи на эти цели.

Поддерживаю.

 

Имхо, НЕ нужно четать всякие около-системные вещи пока не подрюхал системные - процессор и его архитектуру. Со знаниями 386P вы быстро разберетесь что ожидать от венды, какие примерно структуры и что они содержатЪ.

Небольшой код стартующий "из DOS" и переводящий проц в PM, простая обработка исключений, трапов - вот что надо пройти.

The only way is all the way (c)

Good luck.

 

Не волнуйтесь, я всякие и не читаю.

 

Who cares how much ranks does he retain? If he's a decent developer - be sure, he knows assembler lang for P386 very well.

 

I agree with you, good developer should has an excellent knowledge of assembler language for x86 architecture. But it's difficult to find job of system programmer in Russia. I don't know any company, that is specializing on OS developing, kernel developing or other system things.

It's really to work as С++ Software Engeneer (Application programmer), there are a lot of such vacancies...

 

I'd doubt that, should be some (yet small) segment. At least - security. There should has been someone who did products like DriveCrypt, etc. Anyway, you agree with me - Assembler is one vital component of _professional_ system programmer.

Why limit yourself?

 

PSR1257II

of course

System programming is an interesting theme for discuss. There are a lot of questions.
What stock of knowledge should have an application programmer to become a system programmer?
How to get an experience of system programming, if every day except of weekend it's necessary to develop applications in C++(non-system things)?
What are the requirements to the beginner system programmer?

I have heard that system programming is the next step after application programming. Is it right?

 

What does it mean? I don't know such joke.

 

What I wanted to convey - is only one thing: __true__ "system" programmer must see the reality through the lenses of machine logic. Not as DDK suggests, not as bunch of professors might have said. You should be able to realize what's going on in whole system: there are some hardware interrupts - they are set and handled according to system/user programs needs; it must be some manager (core of any OS) - who actually on controls, who passes control down to next layer/to the same layer auxiliary modules/etc.

Once you've implemented small yet fully independent (even from BIOS) Protected Mode micro OS you would have realized/visualised it to yourself. You'd understood why Windows uses only two rings from four, what kind of interface you would expect from from, say, HDD-driver. You might have not known exact details of every single structure but you've learnt what to expect.

It's hard to give you advice; depends on your level of "mania". When I was doing stuff like that (for example), mine main duty was to implement some programs in C, but each single time I was trying to do something about low-level programming (particular - reversing some obfuscated *.sys, debugging that and implementing some new driver as well). Sometimes I would just postponed task assigned to me for a sake of my primary concern. I had (at start) zero knowledge about Win, drivers, etc.

It's common believe. Most of the books about "system programming" would tell you so. Would tell you how to become "system programmer" or "database designer" or whatever if you just follow some instructions. It appears to be not only one way for me/guess for many others. Just learn the whole reality _first_ (e.g. how Machine works), when you can open some "guides" and would say: "ahha, what's how they doing that. Ok. I see why they've done lock cmpxchg here - because other thread could intervene and change that variable too".

 

_fuck!

 

Thanks for the detailed answer.

There is one strange thing. Let's look at the book "Linux System Programming" by Robert Love. In this book he speaks about File I/O, Buffered I/O, Signals, how to get the current time of day and other similiar applications things. So in this book he explains how to use POSIX API in user-level applications. I think, it's Application Programming, at work I use POSIX API every day, and I consider myself an Application Programmer.

I know that system programming is, for example, implementation small yet fully independent microkernel, that loads in the memory and provides system call interfaces, or such sort of low-level things.
Why did the author called his book Linux system programming? Is it really correctly? How do you think?

Can you to advice me good literature about real system programming?

 

давайте забаним нафаню за нарушение правил форума? (это намек)

 

Nafanya
No, because you "глупый ШКОЛОТО".
П.С. Поддержкю бан.
П.С. Тему закрыть.

 

shchetinin
Вы несёте полную ахинею, не умеете грамотно связать двух русских слов,а ваши фразы:

не несут смысловой нагрузки. Вам необходимо обратиться в клинику для душевно больных, врачи в белых халатах Вам помогут